Water pump and timing cover questions

[Sask84gt]

So I got into it this past weekend and ripped my water pump out due to some coolant leaks. Now I’m not 100% percent sure the water pump was the problem. If you look at this pic you can see where there is coolant puddling. It’s puddling in the crevice of the timing cover on drivers and passenger side. I’m also getting leaks underneath car along edges of oil pan. Also attached is a pic of my water pump can anybody tell is it was leaking just by looking at it? Also to note when taking off water pump bolts they were barely tight. I put a ratchet on and loosened them all very easy. That could have been the reason why it was leaking. Third pic is the most concerning for me. It’s a pic of my timing cover with what looks to be a crack or something. I was told by someone who has more knowledge that it was most likely a flaw in the casting. I’m not sure

[KevinK]

First glance, it looks like a crack. Upon closer look, it looks like just the opposite, a crack in the casting mold. It should not be a problem.

[Chuck W]

Could've just been the under-tightened pump bolts.

How's your thermostat housing seal?

As mentioned, that is just a crack/seam in the casting mold that transferred to the part and looks like a crack.

[Sask84gt]

Could've just been the under-tightened pump bolts.

How's your thermostat housing seal?

As mentioned, that is just a crack/seam in the casting mold that transferred to the part and looks like a crack.

Im hoping it was just a loose water pump also but seeing that the antifreeze is pooling behind the water pump on top of the timing cover I’m wondering if it’s not coming from between the timing cover and block. Im sure the loose water pump added to some leaks happening underneath car just not sure about those pools. As for the thermostat housing seal. I think it’s fine but I’m going to remove it also and put a new gasket on it. I added new thermostat and gasket before I dropped motor in couple years ago. I haven’t drove it more than a hour since then.

[ITdude87]

I used a healthy amount of penetrating oil and an impact driver, slowly increasing the levels of torque, to carefully remove the water pump bolts. Those puppies were on there pretty dang tight - FWIW. I recently did this.

Look at area near the lower intake gasket(s) for any signs of moisture, and the thermostat housing - but I'll echo Chuck on thinking that those pump bolts might just have been a little too loose. Good time to swap in a new pump, hardware, gaskets, and torque everything to spec while it's off.

[Sask84gt]

I used a healthy amount of penetrating oil and an impact driver, slowly increasing the levels of torque, to carefully remove the water pump bolts. Those puppies were on there pretty dang tight - FWIW. I recently did this.

Look at area near the lower intake gasket(s) for any signs of moisture, and the thermostat housing - but I'll echo Chuck on thinking that those pump bolts might just have been a little too loose. Good time to swap in a new pump, hardware, gaskets, and torque everything to spec while it's off.

Ya I hoping that’s it because I really don’t want to mess with the timing cover. I’m going to take thermostat housing off and look. New pump, gaskets, going to reuse bolts as they are in very good shape. Was actually surprised. New thermo housing gasket. See what happens after that lol.

[Sask84gt]

Also what’s the easiest way to clean timing cover, thermo housing surfaces for reinstalling gasket? Can a guy use brake clean?

[ITdude87]

I used plenty of elbow grease, scraper, and some brake-clean / engine degreaser. So long as you wipe everything down and it's nice and dry before putting the new gaskets on you should be good IMO.

I'll drop my $.02 and try to sway you in the direction of getting some new high-quality and coated bolts too for peace of mind and insurance while you're in there.
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-8501AHDWE/1...tuds-Bolts-Kit

[KevinVarnes]

Also what’s the easiest way to clean timing cover, thermo housing surfaces for reinstalling gasket? Can a guy use brake clean?

I usually carefully scrape any sealing surfaces with a razor blade. You just want to scrap the surface clean, not dig into it with the razor blade. If there is anything particularly stubborn that I cannot get with the blade I might go over it with a green scotch-brite pad being careful to make sure the debris from the pad doesn't go anywhere that I can't clean out. After that I'll just wipe off any oil or other residue with a clean rag. If it is a surface I'm really concerned about I'll wipe it down with denatured alcohol.

[Sask84gt]

I used plenty of elbow grease, scraper, and some brake-clean / engine degreaser. So long as you wipe everything down and it's nice and dry before putting the new gaskets on you should be good IMO.

I'll drop my $.02 and try to sway you in the direction of getting some new high-quality and coated bolts too for peace of mind and insurance while you're in there.
https://lmr.com/item/LRS-8501AHDWE/1...tuds-Bolts-Kit

i may look at just new water pump bolts as they are a little more reasonable in price. About 60 bucks Canadian. However if I had to get timing cover bolts also the kit runs 168 Canadian plus tax. So an extra $100 for 6 bolts and a nut. Which would be $200 after tax. Absolutely ridiculous for a set of bolts. Imo

[ITdude87]

Yeah that's a bit aggressive no doubt.

I think I paid ~$50 shipped for the water pump bolts.

Definitely not cheap, but, with how many stories are out there of them breaking and/or becoming corroded over time, I figure it's cheap insurance knowing you've got good ones in there. My car only has ~37k on the clock and my bolts were absolutely gnarly. Buy once cry once. If you got the OEM bolts out successfully, no better time than the present to put in some better hardware so you never have to worry - if heaven forbid - you need to remove them again down the line.

I'm not "bolt shaming" here - but I can't recommend re-using the originals in good conscience. Will they be fine? Probably, but I wouldn't chance it if I was in your shoes.

[Sask84gt]

Yeah that's a bit aggressive no doubt.

I think I paid ~$50 shipped for the water pump bolts.

Definitely not cheap, but, with how many stories are out there of them breaking and/or becoming corroded over time, I figure it's cheap insurance knowing you've got good ones in there. My car only has ~37k on the clock and my bolts were absolutely gnarly. Buy once cry once. If you got the OEM bolts out successfully, no better time than the present to put in some better hardware so you never have to worry - if heaven forbid - you need to remove them again down the line.

I'm not "bolt shaming" here - but I can't recommend re-using the originals in good conscience. Will they be fine? Probably, but I wouldn't chance it if I was in your shoes.

hahaha bolt shaming, perfect analogy lol. Ok you shamed me enough I will at least get the water pump bolts. Anybody sell the timing cover bolts separately in case I needed those?

[ITdude87]

Leave things better than you found them sir!

Keep us posted on the leak (or lack thereof) once you get it all buttoned back up. Curious to know the results!

[mmb617]

Im hoping it was just a loose water pump also but seeing that the antifreeze is pooling behind the water pump on top of the timing cover I’m wondering if it’s not coming from between the timing cover and block.

Maybe it's just me but if I had any suspicion there might be a leak at the timing cover to block gasket I'd replace it while I was doing the water pump job. But then it's pretty easy on my car as there's really nothing in the way. Yours might be more difficult.

[Sask84gt]

Maybe it's just me but if I had any suspicion there might be a leak at the timing cover to block gasket I'd replace it while I was doing the water pump job. But then it's pretty easy on my car as there's really nothing in the way. Yours might be more difficult.

Not sure how easy it is on my car, I’ve never done it. Never done a water pump before either. It’s a 302 HO out of a 91 that I converted to carb.

[Matt_83_GT]

Never done a water pump before either.

They're not too bad. The thermostat housing is a bigger pain because of that right-side bolt that's a bugger to get at. The one hose for the housing is also a pain. Like some of the others, I used a gasket scraper and some brake cleaner to clean the areas where the housing and pump attach. I originally bought a replacement chromed housing (thought it would look nice), as well, but that turned out to be fruitless. After trying twice (once with the supplied rubber gasket and once with a Felpro gasket), it didn't sit properly and leaked. I cleaned off the 40-year-old housing and used that. Took care of the problem. When the housing was leaking, I was getting pooling on the timing cover.

[Scott Peters]

Good luck on your project.
When I replaced my water pump back in the 90’s, was lucky that the factory bolts came out intact.
When I reinstalled the new pump, I made sure the Factory bolts threads were totally clean. I then painted the heads and most importantly, COATED the entire shank and threads with NOSEZE compound.
Fast forward to 2008, I pulled my Engine to reseal and paint it.
Those bolts came right out. Remember, those are a combination of 5/16 and 3/8 and don’t over torque them.
18 ft/lbs for the 5/16 and 30 ft/lbs for the 3/8 bolts.
Just my 2 cents.

[Sask84gt]

Good luck on your project.
When I replaced my water pump back in the 90’s, was lucky that the factory bolts came out intact.
When I reinstalled the new pump, I made sure the Factory bolts threads were totally clean. I then painted the heads and most importantly, COATED the entire shank and threads with NOSEZE compound.
Fast forward to 2008, I pulled my Engine to reseal and paint it.
Those bolts came right out. Remember, those are a combination of 5/16 and 3/8 and don’t over torque them.
18 ft/lbs for the 5/16 and 30 ft/lbs for the 3/8 bolts.
Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the tips, torque specs were going to be the next question I asked lol

[Sask84gt]

Ok might be a dumb newb question here. I got 3 gaskets with my water pump. One is installed already behind the plate but not sure which one of the remaining 2 to use on the outside. I also have a nice complete fel-pro gasket kit that also has 2 for the water pump which I will use instead of the ones that came with it. Which do I use?

[ITdude87]

Ehhhhhhhhh idk about 30ft/lb that sounds a little aggressive, this is from the 1986 Ford manual but I'm sure applies the same.

12-18ft/lb at the pump.




As for which gasket to use - Dude, just flip the new pump over and/or mock them up and see which one matches. You just want a good seal at the water holes and around the perimeter of the water pump at the timing cover. Use the new Felpro, and leave the one that came pre-installed between the plate and impeller section, it's an entirely different shape and only goes one way.

[Sask84gt]

Ehhhhhhhhh idk about 30ft/lb that sounds a little aggressive, this is from the 1986 Ford manual but I'm sure applies the same.

12-18ft/lb at the pump.




As for which gasket to use - Dude, just flip the new pump over and/or mock them up and see which one matches. You just want a good seal at the water holes and around the perimeter of the water pump at the timing cover. Use the new Felpro, and leave the one that came pre-installed between the plate and impeller section, it's an entirely different shape and only goes one way.

I kind of wondered about that being a bit too much torque. As for the gaskets, ya I did flip it over and test fit them. First thing I did when I got the pump. Both gaskets fit the back plate just one has a couple more cutouts and the port slots facing different directions. Had to look for which one matches my timing cover ports. Guess I should have looked before I asked. Sorry

[ITdude87]

Guess I should have looked before I asked. Sorry

Nahhhhhhh dude you're good. Friendly ribbing doesn't come across well via text.

[Scott Peters]

To clarify my previous post, when I was installing the pump, I used the 18ft/lbs for any 5/16-18 bolts.
Any accessories that you have to remove are normally 3/8-16, that’s why I stated the higher torque figure.
Sorry for the confusion.
BTW, the extra gaskets are probably included to cover both the 79-85 timing cover and the later FI 86-93.
This use different water pumps as well.

[Sask84gt]

Nahhhhhhh dude you're good. Friendly ribbing doesn't come across well via text.

lol ya I figured you were just ribbing. However, I’m not too experienced with a lot of this stuff and it’s a first time experience so I’m learning from asking questions on here( sometimes ones that are simple to the veterans) and watching videos. I’m sure I will there will be more lol. That’s how a guy learns. This place has been invaluable to me. Anyways, I’m trucking along and appreciate all the help from everyone.

Now all that said time for the next question. Can someone explain timing Cover Flow direction as it relates to water pumps and serpentine belts? Watching videos and was a little worried I bought the wrong pump( counter clockwise) because my timing cover from the looks of it is a standard rotation cover. Is it because I use a serpentine belt that I need CC water pump? How does that all work?

[qikgts]

Here's a few different water pump threads Sask84gt. Hopefully they help.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-amp-bolt-kits

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-wise-rotation